Video Review PLEASE

[BethelPV]

Naa... Bethel Indiana! Not Minnesota... sorry bro!

Zachmo

[vault3rb0y]

Barto i agree, and i dont claim to know everything or even half of what most of you guys in here know. But i do have my own perception of the vault, and use what great college and high school coaches have taught me to do and how to do it. Sure i might not know the exact mechanics down to a physiological level, but perhaps that gives me that different perspective that can sometimes be needed. I may be 16, but if i do everything in my power to learn and grow in my knowledge and experience for pole vaulting, so that maybe i sound 19 rather than 16, and when im 19 ill sound 30 rather than 19. Point is, dont dismiss me as a vaulter and my knowledge of vaulting. I respect your knowledge over me, and i would just hope that you would take in a 16 year old vaulter as committed as i am to learning, rather than ignore me. Thank you

[Barto]

My opinion is that novice vaulters don't need to be giving detailed video analysis. Period. That being said, I did not mean to diminish anyone's enthusiasm or love of the sport. Those are the qualities that will make an individual successful as both an athlete and coach. Good luck.

Barto

[KYSEAMAN]

ok I would like to hear everyones perspective, but I can I please get some more critiques!?!?! start a new forum called "who should be giving advice" - Oh and thanks for everyone who has written something, I PR'd yesterday!

[smokinvaulter1]

Barto always hits the nails on the head He is the one the should give you advice not a HS kid

[Maine Vaulter]

imo....the kids 16 jumping 14' thats preety freakin good. Who's to say whos opinion helps and whos dosn't? just because someones old dosnt mean he gives better advise.

[Tim McMichael]

Vaulterboy,

Keep your chin up.

As for the video.

I can't really see enough to give more than a few general observations. I think the pole is a little too small to worry about getting completely inverted. It takes a lot of stick under you to provide the forces neccessary to get completely upside down.

Your plant is excellent. There are a lot more things going right in your vault than are going wrong.

[altius]

I have no problem with 16 year olds giving advice - to beginners! I always used my second year + athletes to help beginners with their basic drills and encouraged everyone to think of themselves as a potential coach. For while it is possible to be a good vaulter without understanding much about the vault from a theroetical perspective, I have always believed that you will be a better vaulter if you do understand the fundamental principles of what you are trying to do.


However providing feedback on a short piece of video is not as easy as it seems. For one thing you need to know a lot more than the moving image provides. What technical model are they trying to use? How long have they been vaulting, height, weight -especially in relation to the pole they are on, speed - over 30 metres for example, long jumping ability - is what you are seeing on this video really representative of what they usually do? because with any athlete -and especially young ones - there are likely to be variations from one jump to the next , let alone from one day or week to the next. etc,etc,etc.

However it may soon be important for 16 year olds to provide advice on this forum -note 'advice' not 'advise' - because they will be the only ones left offering it. With stupid comments like the one from Maine vaulter, those contributors with something to offer may stay away from Pole vault power. Anyone who has followed this great forum for any time will note the number of positive contributors who have stopped posting here. It happened to me once and I am increasingly reluctant to post now. A good post takes time to put together so when it is lumped in with inane comments like yours, Maine vaulter, it hardly seems worthwhile.

"imo....the kids 16 jumping 14' thats preety freakin good. Who's to say whos opinion helps and whos dosn't? just because someones old dosnt mean he gives better advise."

First of all a 16 year old jumping 14' is not 'preety freaking good" - it is ok- but not remarkable especially when 15 year old girls around the world have jumped that high. Secondly I suggest that when you have your next brain transplant you try to get the surgery performed by someone older than 16.

Finally, KYSEAMAN - looking at the video I note that the other athletes are all doing the rock back drill - if you followed that pattern early in your career, that might be one reason for any problems you are having. Working on the rock back drill BEFORE you have really learned to nail the take off and stay behind the pole early in the vault, does lead to many problems as you develop. Just a thought.

Yes I am old - 72 years of age in fact -but that has given me the time to study with some of the best coaches in the world, to watch many of the great vaulters of the last forty years and to teach hundreds of youngsters to vault - beginning in 1958. What are your qualifications to offer advice on this forum Maine vaulter?

[Maine Vaulter]

Wow anger managment did I insult you? CALM DOWN..... I said if someone wants to give advice then he (or she) should give it with out worring about people whining that they haven't "studied" with world class coachs (I tend to doubt you did either) so sit down, and shut up

[souleman]

OK kids, time to play nice. Noone should ever dispute anything regarding the 6:40 model that Altius says. He is the "master of the model". He also made an extremely good point regarding video critiques. His points in his first two paragraphs are exactly why I don't comment on a video critique requests. Now, if I could just find that apple quicktime dealey bob that Becca told me to go to maybe I could finally watch this jump ........darn...............Later........Mike

[altius]

Maine vaulter - you did not upset me with your first post because ignorance has to be accepted and forgiven. However when you essentially called me a liar in your response, you certainly did upset me -and I suspect many of my friends in the US.

So in reply to your nasty comment I will post a more detailed statement of my background - which was originally posted in full on September 9th when Baggett asked folk in the coaches forum to indicate their qualifications and experience in teaching and coaching.

Quote "" Since my PR is/was 8'11" after thirty minutes of practice in 1957 - my one and only attempt at pole vaulting - I am glad to know there is not a complete correlation between vaulting performance and teaching ability in the event! That said i do believe that all things being equal, the better vaulter you are/were the better coach you could be - although not necessarily the better teacher of pole vaulting!

I have gone a bit beyond your initial question Baggett simply because i believe that good teaching is a function of both knowledge and experience - you gain the initial knowledge from your course work in pedagogy and the ongoing study of the key issues involved and then you build on it through your teaching experience.

My get out is that I have never seen myself as a coach -except for a brief period at Western Kentucky University - six years - when being COACH L. got one a lot more help around the place than being 'a teacher in the PE department'. I now prefer to think of myself as a 'sports educator' in an attempt to separate myself from the 'coaches' of professional sports whose primary aim is to win and not to educate. Coaching track and field, including the vault, has only ever been a hobby which I fell into when i found that the kids in my first school loved it -- and cross country running . My real personal and professional interests are in the teaching of teachers of physical education, especially in the areas of ball games such as soccer, cricket, basktball and table tennis.

So - graduated from Loughborough College in England with majors in physical education and maths July 57.
1957 -60 head of PE ( because I was the only one in the department!) at Wymonham secondary school - of 450 boys aged 11 -15. Taught every hour god gives and usually worked a 70 hour week with after school sports coaching. Build my first pole vault run way and pit there /coached my first vaulter there -Paul Dove - focussed on aths simply because the playing fields were in a mess and we couldnt play cricket that first summer. Had my first English schools champion in the shot - Tony Elvin.

1960 -67 head of PE (ditto) at Dr.Challoners Grammar school -a selective high school of around 550 boys. School became a national sports powerhouse - especially track and field and cross country. Ask Steve Chappell - he was in the mix there. Another 70 hour a week job!

During 57 - 67 I qualified as a British AAA club coach in sprints, hurdles and jumps and as an AAA senior coach in Shot, Discus, Javelin and Middle Distance. Also gained senior coaching qualifications in soccer, cricket and table tennis. All done through holiday courses and both theory and practical exams - usually during the summer break.

1967 -68 graduate student at Western Kentucky University. Taught in the activities program and coached field events. Completed Masters in Physical education.
68 -70 taught physical education at the WKU Elementary Lab school and worked as field event coach.
70 - 73 taught elementary PE methods, activity classes and coached T @F at WKU. During that period - 67/73 -Western won the OVC each year- coached Div 1 All Americans in Shot, Discus and Long Jump and conference champions in every field event including the vault - although I did not have a clue about the event!

Conducted workshops at the University of Kentucky and for the Louisville school district in Movement Education, Movement and music and dance drama. Did 30 hours beyond the masters and after scoring 1270 on the GRE was invited to do an EdD at Indiana- but was too old and beat to take up the offer. Offered Head coaches job at WKU but that is not what i wanted to do with my life.

In 1973 moved to what became The University of South Australia in Adelaide to help develop a degree program in Physical education Teacher Education. Responsible for pedagogy, curriculum and teaching studies so taught methods classes as well as practical classes in Soccer, basketball, table tennis, track and field, archery, ten pin bowling, team handball, sailing and skiing. Even developed a way to help OZ kids understand and begin to play Amurican Football! Have presented on pedagogy issues at numerous conferences in Britain, the USA and Australia.

In 2000 Human Kinetics published my first book "Play practice" - a games approach to teaching and coaching sports".

Have just been invited to conduct workshops at Ohio State in February next year with doctoral students, majors and teachers as they are trying to develop the ideas outlined in the book.

At UniSA coached the womens Basketball team to three National tertiary Championships.

Began coaching throwers in 73 - including Christie Elwins mother to a silver at the C'games in the javelin. Bewteen 78 and 91 coached male athletes to 12 national junior titles in the javelin - best 78.20m - and three girls to top four finishes in the C'wealth games - best 62m plus.

Began coaching vault seriously in 76 when the best male vaulter in the state jumped 4.20. Between 78 and 00 South Australia won the Australian junior title more times than all the other states put together ( five times all three medal spots) --- 96 - 03, 6 0f 8 girls titles. Boys at world juniors 86,88,90, 96,2000 - girls at world youths 99, 2001,2003 - world junior 98, 2002 - Christie Elwin was selected in 2000 but was not allowed to go. Performances detailed in BTB should suggest these results were not all gimmees although of course they cannot be compared with those of the US.

From 78 - 90 coached boys to eight national junior decathlon titles, one to the 86 world juniors and another - Dean Smith - to the 92 Olympic Games (as an able bodied athlete) - he remains the world deaf record holder in the decathlon and several other events I believe. Early on taught Simon Arkell (C'wealth champion/dual Olympian) to vault - he went on to jump 5.80 but I have often said that if he had had a decent coach in the beginning he would have been a 6.00m vaulter!

1973 - 80 Australian national event coach shot put - unpaid position. 1980 - ? national event coach pole vault. 1984 team coach Olympic games; 1986 head coach Australian Junior team athens; ditto Sudbury canada; world university games coach 91/93.

In January 1979 undertook a study tour to Europe with three athletes. Spent two weeks each with Houvion in Paris, Krysinski in warsaw and Krupsky in leverkusen. Studied them working with athletes of the calibre of Slusarski, Kosakeiwicz (both Olympic champions), Houvion Junior.

Had the great good fortune to meet Petrov and Bubka in Canberra (OZ) in 1985 - became a friend of Vitalys over a few ales and brandys that weekend. Have been to Formia on three occasions and have had petrov to Australia twice -once in Adelaide for three weeks, when he brought Gibilisoc with him. Sat beside him at 98 World juniors, 99 world championships 92 Olympic games and 2002 Europeans (with Sergey on the other side of me!) as we watched the vault. Had a two hour interview with Bubka in Munich in 1990 and was able to question him again at the clinic in jamaica in 2001.

In 1990 spent a week with Dr. Jean Claude Perin in Paris - coach of Vigneron and other world class athletes in the 70s/80s.

In early 1991 agapit camed to live with us for three months. He returned in october and stayed until September 92 when we found him a scholarship in Missouri. An exceptional coach - not coaching - unfortunately - on a serious basis at the present time..

Have attended five Summits in recent years and was a keynote speaker in 2004 - spoke again in 2005 but have not been invited back since -must have said the wrong thing -not unusual!!

In 1996 brought Alex Parnov to australia to lead our group. he brought Dimitri Markov and Victor Chystiakov, They lived with us for three months until their families, including Tatiana Grigorieva, arrived. Coached alongside Alex for two years as he worked wih the boys and taught tatiana to vault. The performances of Hooker/Burgess/Tatiana -although he is not coaching her now - and Howe as well as those of his first two daughters tend to confirm my view that he is one of the two best vault coaches in the world -the other one being Petrov naturally.

In late 98 Alex moved to a better offer in perth so from then on and into early 99 worked with Victor Chystiakov and Tatiana Grigorieva before passing them on to a better coach - Petrov - in May. Victor jumped 5.90 and Tatiana 4.50 (both pbs) a few week s after arriving in europe. Had the privilege of being footcatcher to Dimitri Markov during that same period.

I retired from active coaching in december 03.

Along with those experiences - which are all part of my education - I have introduced hundreds of young people to the joys of pole vaulting both in Australia and at clinics at UCLA with Anthoney Curran, in Nampa with larren and Jeremy bailey, Salt Lake City and Brigham Young University with larry berryhill, Geneva Il with Paul Omi., Excelsior springs Mi with Todd Cooper, Slippery Rock Pa with Mark hannay, Columbia SC with Rusty Shealy (plus Baggett and DJ!) and The Woodlands texas with Bubba Sparks and Kris Allison.

Finally of course I have had the good fortune to work alongside PV Student for thirty years at UNI SA- the ideas in BTB all had to pass through the sieve of his critical and educated mind so it too became a learning experience. Incidentally BTB was written after it became clear to me that many athletes I saw at Summits were putting themselves at risk because of bad technique.

All of the above have been learning experiences which have helped clarify my understanding of this great event - In fact i have come to the conclusion that solid experience teaching beginners to vault is one of the keys to understanding it at any level.

The learning process continues! Three weeks ago when i had a discussion with Vitally about the changes he is making in Yelena's running technique and only three days ago had a chat with Dimitri Markov about some changes he needs to make in his technique - after two years debate he has finally agreed with me.

That said, I continually discover from the democratic forum of PVP that my views are worth no more than those of folk who have never coached anyone EVER -hence my occasional oubursts of frustration!" Unquote.

So now Maine vaulter - I ask again - what are your qualifications to comment on the pole vault in this forum?? Or are you just going to call me a liar again??

[rainbowgirl28]

Wow anger managment did I insult you? CALM DOWN..... I said if someone wants to give advice then he (or she) should give it with out worring about people whining that they haven't "studied" with world class coachs (I tend to doubt you did either) so sit down, and shut up

That seriously violates the #1 rule of my board which is BE NICE.