100 times...

[OUvaulterUSAF]

Incidentally OUvaulterUSAF - I will be driving through Indiana on the way from a clinic in Kansas to one at Slippery Rock around June 8/9. Would be happy to put a one day clinic on in your area for the cost of a motel room and some Maccas!!

AAH! Needs of the Air Force have me gone for 6 weeks during that time period. I do volunteer coach at the local high school. I'll check with them and several surrounding schools in the area. Also, I'll see if Purdue athletes would be interested. For a cost of a hotel room I don't see why not. I'll PM you on details.

[TreyDECA]

Perin's study, done with french vaulters in the 70s/80s showed that there was a .86 correlation between long jumping and vault - thats pretty close!

However there is not a lot of correlation between your 400 times and the times for 100/200/ 300. Seems to me that you need to do a few more gut busting anaerobic sessions!!! Oh - and you didnt mention your 1500 time - aound 4.30 i hope if you are aiming for 8600!

all those times are in open meets "fresh"... the 400m i only run in a decathlon and really have honestly never been fit when the conditions were right, and when i have been fit, the wind was screaming. the 1500 pr is 4:42.00 but i know of a few people who've scored 8700+ plenty of times and run 4:50+, but you're right, a 4:30 wouldn't hurt.

i would assume the correlation b/w pv and lj would be for elite pole vaulters only, cause i know a few people who can't vault but can lj fairly well.

[altius]

Trey DECA - You are right - There would have been no point in handing carl lewis a pole for the first time and expecting him to jump high!!

Re the 1500 time - yes many folk, including the great Daley T have scored well with poor (5.00 min plus) 1500s. However what is often forgotten about having a good 1500 is
1. the confidence it gives you going into the second day knowing you can finish strong and often pull back 200 points on folk with more talent than you have -
because 2 it is simply a matter of training to get a decent time -compared with mastering the complexities of all of the other four events of the second day and 3 While each of the other events -especially the disc and vault can fall apart for no apparent reason, the 1500 is always a given.

Anyway = this a pole vault forum -enough of this decathlon stuff.

[rainbowgirl28]

Decathlon talk is certainly welcome here.

[TreyDECA]

but when you train for the 1500m, you compromise a lot of time and effort and volume you could be using for something else. there is a great deal of trade-off for your fast twitch muscles as well. some decathletes make a conscious decision in training to be as good as you can in 9 events
(the EXPLOSIVE ones) and hang on and run the 1500m... i.e Bryan Clay, Dan O'brien, Daley Thompson, etc...

roman, erki, and kip are freaks...

400m training also helps for 1500m endurance and lactic thresholds. i've done neither type of training yet this year, so we'll see if that rings true...

[TreyDECA]

However what is often forgotten about having a good 1500 is
1. the confidence it gives you going into the second day knowing you can finish strong and often pull back 200 points on folk with more talent than you have -
because 2 it is simply a matter of training to get a decent time -compared with mastering the complexities of all of the other four events of the second day and 3 While each of the other events -especially the disc and vault can fall apart for no apparent reason, the 1500 is always a given.

i'd rather be confident in the other 4 events that day, and if you're confident, then you're confident, confidence doesn't just shut itself off.

if the 1500m was a given then everyone would run the same time EVERY time... it all depends on the temp, precip, injuries, what place you're in, how far you're ahead, if you're going after a standard, etc... things like the disc, jav should be closer to the same. wind effects those events less than the other 3 that day. (!!!!see bryan clay's WR in the disc , !!!!also see tailwind!!!!! so you can really say it doesn't matter at all!!!)


ALL IN ALL....
i'd rather vault 5.50 than run 4:20 any day!!!!

[altius]

Sorry about the delayed response but i have had the flu. I note you would rather jump 5.50 than run 4.20. Interesting but this leaves me unsure how serious you are about the decathlon . Improving from 5.00 minutes to 4.20 in the 1500 will bring more points than improving from 5.00metres to 5.60m!!! in the vault and as a coach of both events I know which is the easiest to achieve! But you are the athlete - your choice.

[rainbowgirl28]

Sorry about the delayed response but i have had the flu. I note you would rather jump 5.50 than run 4.20. Interesting but this leaves me unsure how serious you are about the decathlon . Improving from 5.00 minutes to 4.20 in the 1500 will bring more points than improving from 5.00metres to 5.60m!!! in the vault and as a coach of both events I know which is the easiest to achieve! But you are the athlete - your choice.

But isn't there always the risk that additional distance training could slow him down a bit? That could potentially hurt the 100, 110H, LJ, and PV to name a few.

[TreyDECA]

Sorry about the delayed response but i have had the flu. I note you would rather jump 5.50 than run 4.20. Interesting but this leaves me unsure how serious you are about the decathlon . Improving from 5.00 minutes to 4.20 in the 1500 will bring more points than improving from 5.00metres to 5.60m!!! in the vault and as a coach of both events I know which is the easiest to achieve! But you are the athlete - your choice.

my pr is 4:42

you're talking about a serious improvment in both events, that type stuff doesn't just happen, it take serious amounts of time and effort and coaching. especially for the 1500m... you can only manage 5 flat and then drop 40 seconds like that in one season, then you've no time to train for the other events and probably don't weigh enought to throw anything worth a dime. cause i've run a 1500 in 4:42 @ 180lbs and run a 4:52 @190lbs and was in waaaaaayyyyy better shape for the 4:52 race.

if you do lay it out and do all the volume and miles and track pounding it takes to bang out a 4:20, then you lose valuable time and waste valuable energy and train a few different muscle groups than you would need to run a good 110h or lj or even pv for that matter... i know plenty of good milers who couldn't break 49 for the 400 if their life depended on it, but i know countless who run <48 and struggle to hit 4:40... like i said before, i'd rather be great at 9 and average at 1 than great at 1 and average at 9...

and ummm... i'm pretty serious about this... so don't be 'uneasy'

[Barto]

As the coach of some pretty elite decs, I have to agree with Trey on this one. Improvement in the 1500m comes at the expense of 9 other events. You cannot force the body to serve two masters. Either you metabolically train for those 9 events or you train for the 1500m. You cannot do both. If anyone believes differently I have some beautiful real estate in Arizona for sale.....

[TheBigMastodon]

Uhh I dont know what I run the 100m in. Its pretty fast. My 4x100 runs a 44.6 so Im probably mid to low 11's.

[altius]

I have heard all the rationalisation on this topic before - and still believe that neglecting the 1500 is throwing away easy points! My position is that for a guy who can run 48.33 - and should be running faster cf 100 and 200 times, a 4.20 1500 is a jog in the park - especially for someone who only weighs 190 pounds! After all it is equivalent to a 4.38 mile and that really is a jog for someone of your basic running ability.

You certainly do not need to pound out the miles either - just increase your warm up jog and double your warm down jog (both on grass) - have a long easy recovery run once a week on a golf course - run one session of 5 x 400 at race pace - ie 4.20 pace - every couple of weeks. begin with an easy recovery and then gradually reduce the recovery time. Add an occasional 1200 time trial and you are there! I doubt that amount of running is going to move fast twitch fibres to slow twitch - especially for a mature body.

Incidentally how easy is it to recover from sprint sessions or serious anaerobic sessions if your aerobic base is not really good.

Note i never said you could move from 5.00 to 4.20 in a year but then I doubt anyone could move from 5.00m to 5.60 in a year either.

This topic is close to my heart because back in the late 90s we had a decathlete in adelaide who might have given the world record a nudge but for poor performances in both of the events in question. In a score of 8490 he vaulted 5.00m and ran outside 5.00 for the 1500. "A man convinced against his will remains of the same opinion still."