Optimal Grip

[KirkB]

... I think that should be one of my goals this season, to get my 3-left straight pole grip to 12'10 ...

6P, did you notice that he did 5.40 in 1981 with those numbers? Still feel like you're capped by your speed and grip?

It's interesting that 4 years later, he cleared 6.00 ... by increasing his grip by 42 cm. In that time, his 3-lefts grip improved by 30 cm. Had he felt his potential was limited in 1981, he would not have had the self-confidence, drive, and determination to keep progressing ... onwards and upwards!

Kirk

[Pogo Stick]

... I think that should be one of my goals this season, to get my 3-left straight pole grip to 12'10 ...

6P, did you notice that he did 5.40 in 1981 with those numbers? Still feel like you're capped by your speed and grip?

It's interesting that 4 years later, he cleared 6.00 ... by increasing his grip by 42 cm. In that time, his 3-lefts grip improved by 30 cm. Had he felt his potential was limited in 1981, he would not have had the self-confidence, drive, and determination to keep progressing ... onwards and upwards!

Kirk

And in 1981 Bubka had 8 years of pole vaulting under his belt. Not 3 or 4 like many of you guys, and not once or twice per week only during school season. Oh yes, and he had The Coach, whole support system and all time in the world without worrying about school or how to pay bills. Despite this, his results are amazing.

[vault3rb0y]

My 3-right grip hieght for stiff vaults max is about 11'8". I guess i have some work to do .

[KYLE ELLIS]

Petrov actually has a chart of what you should be able to grip on a bending pole using your 3left straight pole max grip. Its on this board if I remember right. Any ways my best 3left straight pole has been like 12-5 to 12-6, so 12'1 isn't that bad. I think you are a stud if you can get 13'0, probably should be able to grip up around 16ft if you can do that. All my kids that can grip 15ft, can get around 12'2-12'4.

[joebro391]

was moving 12'2 - 12'3 tonight...i'll keep em coming.

But here's one for yall... I recently jumped 15' on a 14' 165 from 6 lefts (standards at 80cm), with a 13'6 handgrip. The "tests" mentioned above say that I should max my grip out, around 13'9. If i'm able to use 13'6 as efficiently as I have been (and i know it could be A LOT better), what should my next move be??? same run, longer pole? same pole, higher rating?? move to 7-step and try for 15' poles?? any tips?? this is the crossroads that I'm at, at the moment...if i don't receive many comments on this, i'll probably start my own tread on it. Thanks for any advice. -6P

[vault3rb0y]

Getting your take off step as free during your actual jumps as it is during your 3-step pop ups .

If you were out at 11'4 like you wanted, you would easily grip 13'9 (if not more) and be on 15Ibs more pole.

[joebro391]

true...and i don't think that's gonna happen with my current coach (the private one that i'm with over break, not my college coach)...i think i'm just getting too wrapped up on these stupid straight-pole-tests...though Alan would probably fong my for saying that haha. -6P

[KirkB]

... If i'm able to use 13'6 as efficiently as I have been (and i know it could be A LOT better), what should my next move be??? same run, longer pole? same pole, higher rating?? move to 7-step and try for 15' poles?? ...

Not enough time right now to comment deeply, but on the surface, your next "move" depends on how much you're bending the pole. Remember that you want to get a full bend ... but not CRUSH the pole. You want "optimal" bend. So you can keep moving your grip up as long as you're not crushing it. Once it starts to crush (too much bend) then it's time to move up a flex ... before moving your grip up any more. If you're underbending and making the pit OK, then of course go ahead and raise your grip ... or increase your lefts.

I agree with 3P0. Once you get that free takeoff, be prepared for an increase in pole weight. Said differently, if you DON'T increase the flex and you hit a free takeoff (suddenly ... if on a certain jump it just "clicks"), you're gonna crush the pole ... possibly to the point of snapping it. I've done that a few times. The problem is simply that you don't expect to improve suddenly. You need to recognize the signs ... pole starting to crush ... tail wind ... free takeoff ... feeling more energetic than usual ... put it altogether and you have the "perfect storm" that will snap the pole. Just be ready for this ... recognize the warning signs ... and move up a pole before it happens.

Kirk

[dj]

Re: Optimal Grip
by tsorenson » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:37 pm

I think the correlation is that your grip height from 3 lefts on a stiff pole should translate to your take-off point on your competition pole, which would allow you to determine your grip height as well.
For example, if you can grip 13' on a stiff pole from 3 lefts and stay behind the pole with good technique, while safely getting into the pit, you should be able to take off from 13' on your long run, which would give you the ability to jump on 15' 6 or 16' poles with an appropriately high grip (I am guessing here on what the grip would be for a 13' takeoff point, but it's probably close). I have not tried this myself, but have seen it discussed in various other threads as a way that some elite vaulters use to determine their optimal grip on their competition pole. Perhaps someone with better understanding can elaborate on why this should work...my guess is that the short run stiff pole drill measures your takeoff efficiency which should directly translate to your long run if you know how to take off properly.

Tom

good morning,

you can use my "Six Step Chart"/Mid Mark chart to get an “estimate” of the correlation that Petrov speaks to.

Max 3 left, stiff pole grip.. moved to vertical = a potential full run grip based on "comparing" the stiff pole grip as a “takeoff” point.

For example.. if you are gripping 12-7 on a stiff pole, 3 left… look (extrapolate) at the chart and see where a 12-7 takeoff would place you (remember this is average and that reach height will change the mark slightly) for grip and the ‘average” vault for that grip.

12-7 takeoff (actually 12-8) from my chart puts you at a, potential, grip of 15-2 which is an average 17 foot vault.

It is my understanding that Petrov and Bubka used this procedure on competition day to help decide where he should grip for the beginning of the competition and how “efficient” he was from a physical stand point, for that day, for that runway and for those conditions.

A second example from the chart is for a 11-1 grip on a 3 left, stiff pole… 11-0 takeoff has these numbers…

..............................................Grip..SP/3left........................................
Bar 14-6…..handgrip..13-9……Takeoff.........11-0….........Full run MID/6 step check….46-0…

Bar 19-0....handgrp..16-4.....Takeoff........14-0...........Full run MID/6 step check...55-0...

dj

[tsorenson]

was moving 12'2 - 12'3 tonight...i'll keep em coming.

But here's one for yall... I recently jumped 15' on a 14' 165 from 6 lefts (standards at 80cm), with a 13'6 handgrip. The "tests" mentioned above say that I should max my grip out, around 13'9. If i'm able to use 13'6 as efficiently as I have been (and i know it could be A LOT better), what should my next move be??? same run, longer pole? same pole, higher rating?? move to 7-step and try for 15' poles?? any tips?? this is the crossroads that I'm at, at the moment...if i don't receive many comments on this, i'll probably start my own tread on it. Thanks for any advice. -6P

Joe,
I will reiterate what I mentioned to you on your other thread, which is pretty much the same thing the other guys are saying, that if you are not consistently taking off free from your shorter run, you are not likely to be able to do it with a longer run, where the variables are increased. Having said that, when you get your pole drop/plant/takeoff to be more consistent and free, you will certainly need to move up to a stiffer or longer pole with a higher grip from your current run, or risk crushing/breaking/blowing through your current pole. Using DJ's chart and consciously shortening/quickening your final steps, while working on that free pole drop, will likely help you to get that step out past 11' consistently. Actually, if you do the pole drop right, you will be forced to "get the steps down" by default. If you add too many variables by lengthening your run or raising your grip too much, you will make this important transition harder on yourself. Sure, you may jump higher at first, but might cost yourself a consistent free takeoff in the long run. Good luck, keep up the good work

Thanks to DJ for illustrating how his chart ties in with the "3-step max grip = long run optimal takeoff point" concept. This may help some understand how integrated all these concepts are, and how most of our practice time should be spent on developing a proper run/pole drop/takeoff.

[joebro391]

I will reiterate what I mentioned to you on your other thread, which is pretty much the same thing the other guys are saying, that if you are not consistently taking off free from your shorter run, you are not likely to be able to do it with a longer run, where the variables are increased. Having said that, when you get your pole drop/plant/takeoff to be more consistent and free, you will certainly need to move up to a stiffer or longer pole with a higher grip from your current run, or risk crushing/breaking/blowing through your current pole.

I agree with logic. So when i go into practice, i'd like my coach to say "well, i saw you were taking off under the other day, let's work on getting your take off out and free." NOT "find a run and grab the 16' 145"... I'm a firm believer in the basics, so you and I feel the same about this...{frustrated}

Thanks to everyone for the tips and pointers you've been sharing!! -6P

[VTechVaulter]

Petrov actually has a chart of what you should be able to grip on a bending pole using your 3left straight pole max grip. Its on this board if I remember right. Any ways my best 3left straight pole has been like 12-5 to 12-6, so 12'1 isn't that bad. I think you are a stud if you can get 13'0, probably should be able to grip up around 16ft if you can do that. All my kids that can grip 15ft, can get around 12'2-12'4.

do you have a copy of said chart? im curiuos