20ft jumps

[SlickVT]

All - sorry for hijacking this post. This was not the place for this discussion.

Alan - I will repeat what I have said in the past: You are obviously a knowledgeable man and a great coach. I just do not see why when I stated that the rule changed as a result of IAAF action with Bubka as a voting member I was attacked personally AGAIN. If I listened to everything that you have called me, I would have little self confidence. Good thing I don't.

I am not going to call you gutless or stupid, because I have no reason to. However, a continuing trend in your posts and books is that America and everything we do seems to be wrong. These snide comments are OK, because this is a public forum.
However, I think that you too would NEVER make any of these comments or be as rude directly to people's faces as you are on this board for one of two reasons:

1. You are IN America earning a living from coaching the people that you continuously insult.

2. Americans are the prime buyers of BTB and BTB2.

So it appears we have something in common.

I apologize that you took my comment about Bubka personally. Again, I was stating my opinion of a known situation. And again, I wish I could do that on a public stage like this without being insulted.

Oh and the USA does have a policy of allowing the jump to count if the pole hits it off in the wind to the official's discretion...

Looks like we have two things in common! Maybe America aint so bad!

Signed again,
Adam Bingaman

[powerplant42]

Let's all just let this one go...

[ashcraftpv]

yeah, no more name calling or this thread gets locked.

[gyver]

Just to continue your education slick - Australia, at my urging, tried to get the rule changed in the situation when the pole and not the the athlete knocked the bar off (often because a following wind blew the pole forward after the athlete had released it) - because it discriminated against young athletes, decathletes and many women vaulters. America vetoed the change - or at least I 'think' they did, 'may' have done, I was told on 'good authority' that they did!

The NCAA Executive Committee voted unanimously last year to approve the rule change to allow for a make whenever the pole, but clearly not the athlete, dislodged the bar. The NCAA ultimatley did not approve the change because they were worried that marks made in NCAA events would not be accepted by the IAAF.

Most American (world?) coaches seem to be in favor of this change but until each governing body agrees to change the rule together it probably will not happen.

[altius]

Rumors /tittle tattle should not be posted here BECAUSE this is a PUBLIC FORUM. Facts yes, opinion yes but clearly identified as opinion not facts.

The only person I regularly insult is you slick old son because you continually make snide comments - even about people you have never met. Of course I will also happily insult anyone who insults my intelligence by making absolutely lunatic posts - fortunately they have become fewer and fewer in recent times.

Note that I do not live in the USA and certainly do not make a living from Beginner to Bubka or from the clinics I work. In fact I just about break even on my airfares with the latter. I continue to come to the USA because I have many friends there - folk like Steve Chappell, Paul Omi, Daniel Isaacs, Bubba Sparks, Rick Baggett, Todd Cooper, Christie Elwin and of course Roman Botcharnikov among others - and I can then go on to Europe to meet family and friends there. I would also suggest that the folk at Slippery Rock - where i have worked several camps in the past -would not have asked me to coordinate their three camps and a coaches clinic if they thought I was going to insult everybody!!

A comment from one of your friends suggests that you are not such a bad chap - why dont you prove it by lifting your game - and especially by accepting once and for all that Bubka's superiority was down to his super efficient technical model - which you would do well to copy, as your buddy is already doing.

[vault3rb0y]

You insult me every once in a while. Not like that though.

I think bubka is an honorable guy, no matter if he did have a part in changing the rules a bit. Thats his job. I would just find it hard to believe he worries about his record being broken. Eventually, every world record as of right now will be broken. I think he has only good intentions, and i would even say HOPES that there will be multiple 20' vaulters he gets to see before he dies. Just speculation though.

[rainbowgirl28]

I went back over some of the old posts from PV Power and found this post I made regarding Bubka's position on the IOC Committee at the time of the rule change: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... =8351#8351

I certainly don't think it is fair to assume that Bubka is single-handedly responsible for changing the rules or that, if he was even involved at all, that his motivation was to protect his World Record. It sounds like at the time a lot of rules were being changed in a number of events to make the sport tougher and friendlier for TV audiences.

However, there is definitely no evidence that he was opposed to these rules. Of everyone out there, Bubka is the one person who may have been persuasive enough to prevent these rules from being passed. He never made a public stand against them as far as I remember or can find.

Alan, there is no need to attack those who speculate that Bubka may have been involved in the rule change. You are welcome to correct them with facts, but name calling and personal attacks are immature and against the rules of my website.

I am sure a lot of what went into the rule changes happened behind closed doors and we will never know the truth. What is true is that the vast majority of the pole vault community STRONGLY opposed these rules. Petitions were sent out to the IOC signed by many of the top athletes and coaches in the sport and we were ignored.

Don't blame Bubka for this. What happened was much bigger than he was. Maybe he did like the idea of his records being "safer". Maybe he secretly hated the idea but was afraid speaking against it would cost him his upward mobility within the IOC. Whatever the case, I suspect none of us will know for sure unless he decides to come on here and set us straight.

[altius]

"2. Americans are the prime buyers of BTB and BTB2."

I trust readers picked up the irony of that statement coming from slick - if they did not I should point out that I sent him a FREE copy of the book - in the obviously misguided belief that in reading it he would come to the conclusion that Bubka's technique was indeed a major factor in his success. Until the many talented athletes in the USA -and for that matter around the world - begin to master that model they are unlikely to break his record - whether they bounce the bar or not.

3po - note that when I insult you there is usually a

involved.

Whatever your limitations - and there are probably many I dont even know about!! lol!! - you are an avid and open minded student of the event. Would that there were more like you.

[altius]

Becca with all due respect I would suggest someone who makes the following statement
"Pretty shady and borderline cowardly if you ask me".

about a great athlete who demonstrated his physical and moral courage throughout his career - and who is not in position to defend himself from the slur, there has to be a response from people who regard him as a friend. I believe that this defence should be as vigorous as possible to discourage people from making such outrageous statements in the future.

Given this I would suggest you clarify - at least for my benefit - how far one is allowed to go in defaming others on your site before there can be any reaction.

[rainbowgirl28]

Becca with all due respect I would suggest someone who makes the following statement
"Pretty shady and borderline cowardly if you ask me".

about a great athlete who demonstrated his physical and moral courage throughout his career - and who is not in position to defend himself from the slur, there has to be a response from people who regard him as a friend. I believe that this defence should be as vigorous as possible to discourage people from making such outrageous statements in the future.

Given this I would suggest you clarify - at least for my benefit - how far one is allowed to go in defaming others on your site before there can be any reaction.

Calling someone shady and borderline cowardly is not defamation, but it's not nice either. Adam, I would suggest in the future you think a little more carefully about the words you choose. Not being nice does violate the terms of my site, especially if that person is not around to defend themselves. Consider yourself warned.

Alan, surely you can come up with a way to defend others that doesn't involve sinking to the level that offended you so severely.

[SlickVT]

Ok... I am a reasonable guy, so I am going to tuck the old tail between the legs and do whats right.

Here goes...

Becca... I apologize for what I said. It came out on the post a little harsher than I would have liked. I will up the level of my personal filter in the future. People that know me well know it isn't effective alot of the time, and gets me in trouble sometimes, but I will work on it. I only get this fired up over things I care about... and vaulting is definitely up there.

Alan.. Again, I think you are a great coach and a knowledgeable guy, and I really do appreciate the BTB2. Apologies for what came out. Again, I will work on my personal filter. I have had some extreme frustrations with near misses from short pegs, and I obviously took out the frustration in the wrong places.
However, I surely would appreciate a little less aggressiveness with the replies every once in a while. Like I said, I don't intend on being as brash as I come off most of the time. Actually, when I go back later and read what I type sometimes, I realize some mistakes. Maybe I just suck at typing.

Sergey... you are my homeboy. My bad.

[SlickVT]

Back on the subject...

No, no one has come very close to 20'.

No one has implemented a jump as technically and physically superior as Bubka. I accept that. I have actually tried to implement the basic concepts of the model as best as a less-than-smoking-fast vaulter can with relative success as best as I can over time. Its getting there.

Like I said in another post, the next person to jump 20' will have a nice tailwind, a career day and a bit of bar luck.

... Especially with short pegs. KIDDING! KIDDING!