Pole Vault Manifesto

[dj]

Good morning,

The “inversion”

Another very important point that I feel needs to be expanded upon and does not seem to be emphasized nearly enough is the TREMENDOUS pull of the left hand to the point of literallly throwing your left elbow and back of the hand down to the bearing point of the pole while at the same time the head, neck and upper back are thrust back in also a violent action that takes place simultaneously from almost full inversion at the point I have previously called "U". Perhaps "U" is the wrong term and I will gladly change my term fo a better one if someone can give me the name of that position? It is the position you are in, while vertical, before the pull and the laying back of the upperback, neck and head in line with the pole. Do all you greats hit it as violently as Bubka? Watch the video at that point 20 times and please comment. I personally believe it is one of the more important points that needs to be perfected and is the reason why vaulters over the past 10 years have not come close to 6.4.

Or covering the arc of the pole..

Issakson went to that position and brought his right hip to his top/right grip and then immediately went vertical and turned into a one arm handstand facing the bar. i like to teach my vaulters to "invert" and bring the left groin to the right or top grip.. or take the grip to the groin.. wrap the pole and go.. swing, wrap, pull, push........

During the mid 80’s to mid 90’s Earl and Mike were the last two jumpers that were still doing this.. everyone started slowing the swing down to “penetrate”, kept their backs to the bar..forever” because they were using high grips, forced penetration and bigger poles and couldn’t swing the way they should.

This is when the “Tuck and shoot” started it’s trend. If you grip high, delay, force bend to move the pole you have to “tuck and shot” to “catch up” and come off the top.. what that did early on was create very inconsistent vaulters because they would “force bend” more or less… either blow through from to much push… or come up short because they didn’t pus enough.. the “blow though’ guys would keep moving to bigger poles and then come down short.. a lot!!!

This is why Petrov, Alan and others have been so critical of our vaulting… the USA wasn’t the only one doing this but it was contrary to the “natural’ way to bend the pole, which done properly will work better with physics..

The “forced bend” technique will always have you guessing and is much more un-safe.

Get on a rope.. and hold right hand above left hand.. PV grip.. invert… feet up.. head down with the shoulder axis as your “pivot’ point… you may bend the right arm at first to build momentum.. but try and keep it straight..

You may have to use your left hand at the start because you are not “swinging”, moving forward, like you would be on the pole… but this is what you want to accomplish as the toe leaves the runway in the vault.

The speed of this move is very important… even “tuck and shot guys have had “a faster rotation’ with no “stops” on there best jumps as opposed to there average jump.. (I have studied many of Jeff’s jumps to see “why” according to physics he is/was so great…

dj,

[KirkB]

... after viewing the 1997 Video. Bubka does not appear to jump at all at take off, but holds the hands high and just runs through with chest forward and puts the emphasis on lifting the trail leg back. There is no pull or push. The pole bends on it own.

I'm quite sure that Bubka jumps off the ground quite well ... better than most. If you're not seeing this, then it's an optical illusion. He was an extremely good long jumper (25-26'), and I have yet to hear (before you said it) anyone claim that he has a flat takeoff. Elite vaulters take off at about 18-19 degrees, and I believe Bubka's was thereabouts.

Everything else you said is spot on.

Kirk

[PVDaddy]

Kirk, What is more important in PV Penetration or Jump?
Does Jumping effect Penetration?
If a person is running and Jumps upward and you filmed it. Should you be able to notice at what point that person Jumped upward by watching the top of the head?
Watch Bubka is there any point during his take off were you notice any sudden surge upward.
Or does he look like a Jet taken off of the runway smoothlesly and seamlesly?

[IAmTheWalrus]

That is jumping. Bubka is moving at ~9.9 m/s, so even with a strong vertical impulse he is still going to travel faster in the horizontal direction. Here is video of the world record triple jump.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAC1qLiJ ... 1&index=19
This is a similar, although not identical, jump angle to the pole vault. The fact that the top of the pole continues to move up is a good indication of a good jump. Had Bubka not jumped up, and instead ran of the ground, you would seethe pole sink more as opposed to rise continually.

I think this is the down side of watching video, because you want to coach based on what the athlete is trying to do rather than what it appears he is doing.

[KirkB]

Kirk, What is more important in PV Penetration or Jump?
Does Jumping effect Penetration?
If a person is running and Jumps upward and you filmed it. Should you be able to notice at what point that person Jumped upward by watching the top of the head?
Watch Bubka is there any point during his take off were you notice any sudden surge upward.
Or does he look like a Jet taken off of the runway smoothlesly and seamlesly?

If I must choose, I'd say that JUMPING is more important than PENETRATION. The JUMP will give you some of the PENETRATION ... but lack of a jump gives you a takeoff that's too flat - not enough upwards motion to get the body moving against gravity. Yes, you'll swing UP by just letting yourself get picked off and swinging, but the importance of JUMPING up cannot be stressed enough. It's that initial IMPULSE that DJ ... as well as Petrov, Launder, and others ... emphasize as giving you that initial thrust in the right direction ... UPWARDS!

Watch the top hand of the vaulter ... not the head. Step thru the frames until you see the pole hit the box. Then step back until you see the takeoff foot leave the ground. If it's a free takeoff, you'll see one or more frames in between. The direction that the HAND moves is the takeoff angle. DJ has mentioned this on recent posts.

If the takeoff is under, you can't do this. That's becuz the pole hits before the foot leaves the ground. In other words, the vaulter gets ZERO lift from pre-bending the pole. Or if he does get a LITTLE bit of lift, he's fighting against the anchored pole in the box, so instead of lift, he's getting bend. Very inefficient ... fraught with leakage.

I think Wally has answered your question re a jet takeoff exactly right. On vid, the upward impulse looks minimal ... hardly noticeable ... but it's SO-O-O-O-O-O-O IMPORTANT! It's the vaulters INTENT that's important ... not what you THINK you see on the vid.

Some very good coaches will argue against the benefits of jumping UPWARDS on takeoff ... but they're usually the same ones that don't understand all of the benefits of a free takeoff. Some of them will even argue that a pre-bend is a good thing! No problem, except it's not Petrov. If you choose the Petrov Model, then everything else ... about the free takeoff and the upward impulse ... makes perfect sense.

Kirk

EDIT: Fixed typos.

[PVDaddy]

I understand what Petrov has said in the Model. I am a believer in the Model. Read my previous post were I described 5 elements of the vault. But after studying Bubkas Vault I can tell you right now that there are Many ( and we always said, "Its the little Nuances in technique that make all the difference!" ) details in Bubkas's style that have not been expressed in it. I think that the entire PV world would be much further ahead if instead of changing( ie, 6.4 Model) a proven style ( I am not entirely convinced that Bubka follows every element of the Petrof Model ) they try to take what is proven and describe it in much better detail. There are many elements in Bubkas Vault that are crititical that you can clearly see that need to be expressed in wrighting for the PV world to know. For exmple when I see Bubkas take off I see the following elements; 1) at point of take off he is standing erect and square. 2) Pole Plant is tall and pole makes contact with bottom of, Not back of Box. ( Thats why the pole bends slightly the opposite way first) 3) He is Stretching upward to maximum with top hand 4) There is no interuption of his plant foot stride. 5)Emphasis of plant foot stride is on Maximum stretch with his Take off traling leg foot behind the verticle line drawn down from top hand.(Kirk calls this jumping to the stretch)6)He is taking off freelY with good chest penetration into a maximum stretched inverted-C (Again very much emphasis of stretching his trail leg back to maximum!)7)There is no push, There is no pull at take off. From the maximum stretched inverted C position the Pole bend itself naturaly as it is loaded from his mass and acceleration and position ( inverted C) . Center of mass is perfectly placed on the pole with trailing leg hanging back. This also allows an acclerated (Because of the rubber band effect) and LONGER swing that could not be achieved otherwise. This also allows him to achieve maximum kinectic energy addition to the pole and himself. (a very nice active motion!)
I think his Main concern Is to accelerate into an inverted C maximum stretched position into the most free take off possible.
Kirk, please describe for me how you jump upward and stretch your take off foot so far backward at the same time? This is not a trick question I need to know how one does that?

[KirkB]

Kirk, please describe for me how you jump upward and stretch your take off foot so far backward at the same time? This is not a trick question I need to know how one does that?

I describe this technique in the Bryde Bend thread here ... in Post #13 ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=15483&p=111421

Remember Newton's 3rd Law: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So to stretch the trail leg back to the extreme, you must drive your lead knee and chest forward ... just as much. I also had a forwards lean on takeoff ... but that's an advanced technique ... hard for a high-schooler to do (therefore not recommended).

Caution: The INSTANT that you reach maximum pre-stretch, you must IMMEDIATELY fire the trail leg, the top hand, and everything inbetween (including the chest but excluding the lead knee) in the OPPOSITE direction. This keeps your CONTINUOUS CHAIN OF MOTION going, and keeps your pole rolling towards vertical. At the same time, it keeps your body moving forwards and UPWARDS.

The reason UPWARDS is capitalized is that a common mistake made .... which I made for the better part of a year ... was to penetrate (drive the chest FORWARDS), but then pause in that position. This allows the pole to roll, but DOES NOT keep you moving UPWARDS. The problem with that is that it takes too much time and energy to get your body moving back in that upwards direction ... time that's way too valuable to be passive about.

This ties directly into DJ's comments about the happy medium between a straight-pole vault and a bent-pole vault. The straight-pole vault gives you the shortest distance from A to B (takeoff to release), and the more passive your technique is ... and the more you bend the pole ... the longer the distance from A to B, thus the more inefficient your bent-pole vault is.

Kirk

[vaultman18]

Kirk sorry for stirring the pot earlier, it was not my intention to do that. The 6.40 model is older than you are giving credit and Bubka preformed the key elements of the 6.40 model. I do not know if Bubka and Petrov were aware of those things or not. Maybe Agapit knows, he was in Russia at the time this all developed after all. Can it be performed by younger athletes? Yes with proper instruction as it is almost entirely what we already recognize as the Petrov model. Which Alan has laid out exactly how to teach to anybody. I believe the pull can be taught as well but I would not recommend starting the week before a state meet.

PVDaddy there absolutely is a jump at takeoff. If you are teaching no jump you are making a mistake. If you look in the front cover of BTB you will see a good picture of Bubka with a straight pole and his foot well off the ground. He is jumping up. Now the chest penetration is not a goal but rather an effect of all the speed being transferred to the pole. I think the word Roman uses is a "compensatory movement".

[PVDaddy]

Vaultman18 wrote:The 6.40 model is older than you are giving credit and Bubka preformed the key elements of the 6.40 model. I do not know if Bubka and Petrov were aware of those things or not. Maybe Agapit knows, he was in Russia at the time this all developed after all. Can it be performed by younger athletes? Yes with proper instruction as it is almost entirely what we already recognize as the Petrov model.

I personally don't think Petrov or Bubka would have given a hoot about the 6.4 model. Why should they care about using a Model that is inferior to theirs. Bubka IMHO would not have Jumped as high using it. As I understand it has produced 6.05 by only a couple athletes capable of using it. It would not be so difficult to do if it were mechanically sound. I used to incorrectly think that the 6.4 model was was built around Bubkas 6.3/6.4 Vault based and Petrov Model. That would be the correct way to do it. Start with the best vault the world has ever seen, Break it down, disect it and capture it in words like we have been doing here (much more detail than Petrov has and include the small but very important Nuances that make the technique Work). Why did Petrov leave those important details out? After Kirk told me that the 6.4 model was teaching left hand pull immediately after take off and others things which I thought were goofy I lost interest in it.
What we have been doing here is much more productive and it would be so helpful if someone were to capture the entirety of Bubkas vault in great detail which include those small but such important nuances.

In reguards to Bubka Jumping up at take off. I agree that there is an upward propulsion effort beeing made and after I went back to view the video I could see that. So thank you for helping me to verify that Kirk and others. But I will argue that there is at least an equal amount of effort beeing made toward the backward stretch of the take- off foot

[vaultman18]

This has turned funny.
PVDaddy you are looking for little details that made Bubka great??? And the left arm pull is not it??? Believe me Roman Botcharnikov is as good as it gets and he put all this up on a message board for free. I do strongly suggest that you read "Beginner to Bubka and Isinbayeva Too!". Alan spent a lot of time talking to and watching Petrov. He has put Petrov's thoughts and model into a book, in English.

[PVDaddy]

Thats right Vaultman18 I believe in studying great vaults of great Vaulters. And I have learned a great deal from doing it. Don't worry about my methods of learning. If that upstes you to bad. I could care less. Dont be rediculous, every aspect of Bubkas vault makes him great. I may make a comment on here that is not enrirely correct. If someone has something constructive to say, I pay attention and re-evaluate and move forward. Also do not assume what I have read or have not read because you have no idea.

[KirkB]

Vaultman, thanks for chiming into this thread. I have said it before and I'll say it again ... you have more expertise re the 640 Model than anyone else that I know ... other than Agapit ... so I highly respect your opinion about it.

I doubt that you can change my mind on a couple key points, but I do ask that readers take what I say about the 640 Model with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert on it, as I have no practical experience with it. Vaultman, you on the other hand, do!

I'm not going to debate my differences of opinion with Vaultman. I've stated my doubts that a high-schooler can or should practice the 640 Model, and I've questioned whether Bubka's 1997 jump followed the 640 Model or the Petrov Model. I say the Petrov Model, and Vaultman says the 640 Model. Viva la difference!

More to the point, I say to you PVDaddy, that you're trying to get into the fine details of ADVANCED technique before you've mastered the Beginner and the Intermediate levels. Quite frankly, I'm not even recommending the Bryde Bend to you. You need to figure out the basics first ... as per the Petrov Model, and as per BTB2.

Cheers, Vaultman!

Kirk