Sliding hand

[Maverick986]

i'm sure we all know about sliding your top hand because we don't hold on or are inside our mark....but I have a different problem...

at the hs i am assistant coaching at we have a vaulter that is doing extremely well but has one problem. his hand slides...its not his top hand, its his bottom hand. for some reason when he jumps up it slides down the pole (towards the box). this seems to be preventing him from collapsing his arm so he can complete his swing up.

we've tried having him hold as tight as he could, only i think when he goes up he still loosens his grip a little, and that didn’t seem to help much. we've tried putting a coin between the palm of his hand and the pole to get him to not slide his hand because we thought the coin would fall out if he did, but it didn't since he still slid his hand and the coin stayed with it. we've tried putting athletic tape on the pole for his bottom hand, but he claimed it only made his hand slide easier, which it looked to do. short of using a sticky tape for his bottom hand and/or taping his hand to the pole we have run out of ideas.

i would tape his bottom hand to the pole but i'm nervous it would just cause him to injure his self because he could twist/sprain his wrist trying to collapse his arm or do something else that would result in injury.

does anyone have any suggestions as to what we can do??

height of vaulter: ~5'5"-5'7"
weight of vaulter: ~153lbs
current pole useing: 12'1" 170 16.6 flex (i think) UCS/Spirit
hand grip: holding at top allowed hand hold

[ladyvolspvcoach]

is he trying to push with his bottom hand? And how far apart is his grip?

[Maverick986]

he's trying to jump with his bottom arm straight and then as the pole begins to unbend collapse his arm...but when he jumps up i believe it is when the pole begins to unbend is when he slides his hand down....his hand grip is a little less than 1 arm's length apart, as in he grabs the pole w/ his top hand at its position and then puts that arm straight back and then grabs his bottom hand at his arm pit, but then we have him move his bottom hand about 2 fingers closer to his top hand.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Actually, that grip is way too far apart! The optimum distance between hands is shoulder width. That is almost exactly equal to the lenght of the grip to elbow plus one hand width. You might want to try that. The distance between hands can also prevent an energetic swing, then if he is trying to keep his lower arm straight (there are a hundred discussion on this board as to why that is not the thing to try and do) there is no way physically he can rotate through his shoulders and invert. Try changing his grip and see if that has an effect. It also means there is no way he can be carrying the pole and planting properly.....

[vault3rb0y]

Actually, that grip is way too far apart!

Thats how i get my grip on the pole, and it seems to work well. I am not as educated as to the differences it makes in your jump, although i know that a closer grip will help you with your swing, because both hands are closer to being over your head. At the same time, its easier to carry to pole with a little wider grip and you have more control on it down the run way. I believe it may be just preference.

[Maverick986]

we origionally do it tish was just because its alittle easier for the kids to grasp. the athlete that is having the problem we had gone to the shoulder width appart thing but it was the same distance for the most part +1-2 fingers i think it was.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

It's not about preference its all about physics!!!!

[vault3rb0y]

It's not about preference its all about physics!!!!

would you explain to me the physics then so i understand it better, because i have found i can only change the way i jump if i understand how its going to help me, thanks.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Sure! This discussion is somewhere on this board from about a year ago. But nontheless.
If the goal is to be as tall as possible at the plant then you don't want your distance between your hands to diminish how tall you might be. Essentially, if you were to hang from a high bar and measure the distance from the bottom of your feet (lowest point) to the floor while your hands are a shoulders width apart. Write down the distance. Then move your hands farther apart and measure from the feet to the floor, the distance would be greater. Likewise if you moved your hands closer together than shoulder width the distance would also be greater than at shoulders width. So even on a pole you cannot be as tall off the ground if your hands are wider or narrower than shoulder width.
Simple physics!

[Anti-Gravity]

It's not about preference its all about physics!!!!

would you explain to me the physics then so i understand it better, because i have found i can only change the way i jump if i understand how its going to help me, thanks.

A shoulder width grip is a gift that keeps on giving!!

In addition to the benefits at the plant that ladyvolspvcoach pointed out, you have the benefit of your mass being closer to the fulcrum when you swing. The closer your mass is, the less energy it takes to bring your pole to vertical. Less energy = higher grip.

[vault3rb0y]

and all this time my very knowledgable vault coach hasnt remembered to have me move my grip closer. Now that i think about it, all the other guys up in the 14's and 15's get their grip by measuring from top grip the elbow, and i go all the way to my armpit. It will take a little getting used to but i bet this will help my getting inverted a ton!! thanks a lot guys, i think this is the first big thing ive learned on here, is there anything special to remember when i get my grip closer together, like anything to be cautious about before i start jumping? thanks

[Maverick986]

well at practice today we had or athlete grabbing the pole shoulder width apart and then he still slid his hand...so we moved his bottom hand up, and up and up to the point where he was two hand grip up closer to his top hand w/ his bottom hand and still slid his hand...

we think he's probably loosening up his grip or almost letting go w/ his hand when the pole begins to unbend. we just gotta get him to hold on now...